That is the right solution, not charging people more for health insurance because they have a problem. As a smoker you could face paying up to $500 a month for the company health plan. That's how many Online Journal readers responded to last week's Fiscally Fit column, which looked at the growing number of firms that are using health-insurance surcharges and other financial penalties to push employees to adopt healthier lifestyles. Charging smokers higher health insurance premiums is no more objectionable than imposing taxes on tobacco products, alcohol, guns, or gasoline. As long as there are no consequences for these people for their choices why would they change. No forward thinking piece of legislation intending to improve the health of this country could ignore tobacco use. Not everyone is meant to be a size two. Smokers and fat Americans could soon be paying a lot more for their health care. What Scrub Color Should Surgeons Probably Avoid? There are excellent intentions behind this policy smoking is the number one preventable cause of death and smokers disproportionately incur health care costs due to the debilitating diseases that result from the habit. I think our government should ban smoking. Hey don't we export cigarettes and fast food franchises Shhhh! Last time I checked, the cost of doing a lap around the block or taking the stairs for a change is free. Michelle, the former editorial director, insurance, at QuinStreet, is a writer, editor and expert on car insurance and personal finance. and people might get healthier. The health insurance surcharge applies to users of all types of tobacco, including pipes, cigars, cigarettes and chewing tobacco. Smokers, however, should definitely pay more for health care, etc. Corporate medical syndrome, anyone? They are considered high risks. So instead, companies are now going to start making these employees pay more. Smokers do not currently pay more for health insurance premiums, due to Australia's community-rated health insurance system. This is self-inflicted risk that clearly results in higher medical costs. Not surprisingly, implementing a differential does involve some risk. Our patient, weighing over 600 lbs., was above the weight limit of our hospital systems scanner tables and those of all the other major medical centers that we called in our large city. Jack: Should fat people and smokers pay more for healthcare insurance? Another thing to keep in mind: although smoking does not affect your health insurance premiums at the moment, it is possible that the rules could change in future. This is nothing but insurance companies ripping off ignorant consumers. If your home is large, on a beach, in an earthquake or hurricane zone you pay more. I also don't have an issue with taxing excessive drinkers either. They already spend more money, on cigs and food, than I do. As word spreads what the changes. If you use too much insulinyou'll gain weight (who ever you are). Or enjoy cook outs eating hamburgers and hot dogs? The CHIPHIT complex and the future of health care: Can we create a low-cost, high-quality system? Most insurance plans cover smoking-cessation programs. Insurence companies need to put people ahead of massive profits. But I am willing to compromise. There is always a reason but there is never an excuse for bad health. However, I don't think there should be a set fee. Whats a company secret you can share now that you dont What quietly went away without anyone noticing? Therefore, they cost LESS than non-smokers who live longer and who will suffer other costly age-related diseases. Although most states allow the surcharge to be up to 50 percent, its not happening, she says. (As usual, check state and local laws to be sure.) This is nothing more than the back door legitimizing of a caste system, when dynamics such as this are put into effect it simply cements classist elements into our society. Many studies have shown that smokers cost the health care system more and that they cost health insurers more. Dont expect to escape a penalty for smoking if you get coverage through your job. But, that's a crummy example to set for the vast majority of us who don't. Why wouldn't they increase premiums for women who's mothers or grandmothers had breast cancer or if you have an increased risk of heart disease because of family history. Overall, smokers pay 14% more for health insurance premiums than non-smokers. If you're quitting smoking, consider annual renewable term life If you smoke tobacco or cannabis, vape, or chew tobacco, you will pay more for life insurance. However, quitting smoking can help reverse the negative health effects of tobacco, giving you a better chance at a longer, healthier life -- not to mention the money you'll save on cigarettes and healthcare! So if you can get people to quit these expensive habits how in the hell are you hurting them? This site uses cookies. Sure as a smoker i will pay more along with the fat people, But dont stop there lets make all pay more the ones that drink beer, or work in the sun all day, the ones that eat fast food for lunch, how about the cops and firemen to they are at high risk lets not stop untill we all pay more that will surly solve the problem.. You don't have to be rich to eat healthy, exercise, and give up smoking. So eat less, eat better and your premiums will go down. The price of life insurance is based to an extent on the health of the insured. To appreciate the solution, let me expand on the flaws in health insurance surcharges. Some also argue that hiking smokers premiums serves as an incentive for them to kick the habit. As the figure shows, smokers are less likely to buy insurance under any circumstance, an unwise decision given the likelihood that they will incur higher-than-average healthcare expenses. Yes, Jack. Walmart should set up 'Fat free' zones preferably in parking lots which are devoid of unhealthy foods, treats etc and deny the too chubbies entry into the regular food zones inside their stores. In a way Jack they already do. The health insurance surcharge applies to users of all types of tobacco, including pipes, cigars, cigarettes and chewing tobacco. This stuff is expensive, and I personally don't want to pay for John Doe's chemotherapy when he has smoked for 50 years. But non-smokers have rights, too. Of course they should pay more. People are already having to pay to much, and if you already have something such as diabetes you pay more.All I see is greed and another way to make people pay. So pay up! Sadly, yes ! I Jack gain weight if I try to live on 500, 1000, or even 1500 calories a day. Read Grateful Patient Fundraising: Ethically Problematic or Altruistic? Why not make health insurance premiums lower for those that take steps to improve their health? States, however, can set their own rules to reduce or eliminate that surcharge, and 10 so far have chosen to do so. Genetic factors can also increase health risks, but genetic discrimination in employment and insurance is illegal in the U.S. and many countries. Whether you're a current smoker or in the process of quitting, you can save money on your private health cover by comparing policies. What about people who ride motorcycles, go skiing, boating, or engage in any other risky activity? It always seems people don't do something until it hits their pocketbook. Community rating is there to protect people who, through no fault of their own, through things they cant control like their age, that theyre not penalised, NIB Managing Director Mark Fitzgibbonsaid at the time. This is a great idea. the reward is no more than 20 percent of the total premium; the program is reasonably designed to promote health and prevent disease; eligible employees must be given an opportunity to qualify for the reward at least once per year; and. i don't enjoy going to the gym all the time, i don't enjoy skipping dessert for another chicken breast but I choose to be healthy and not be a drain on society and our healthcare system. Smokers should pay for their own health costs. Smoking? then you need to curb the amount being used. are killing us anyway wth bills n medicine we are always use as the puppets. The second ethical argument for charging smokers higher insurance rates is that it is actuarially fair because individual insurance rates should be based on expected payouts. Because many companies self-insure - meaning they pay for health care. Charging smokers higher health insurance rates is popular and legal, but is it ethical? One recent survey shows the use of penalties is expected to climb next year to include almost 40% of large and medium-sized companies. I applaud the fantastic efforts of Michelle Obama in this regard as we strive to make healthier foods and exercise a part of our daily routine for children. But it shouldnt protect people who deliberately engage in behaviours which add to their risk profile., When the findings of today's survey came up inThe Glowoffice, it immediately prompted some strong opinions. Note they wouldn't pay more for health care but health care insurance. Why not include illegal drug users and alcoholics. If you have a certain prescription, or just have a test ordered from your doctors, the insurance companies will raise the premiums once a year regardless of whether this condition has been confirmed or not. The opinions expressed here are those of the authors, not The Hastings Center. When an uninsured smoker gets emergently sick, that means hospitals and clinicians dont get reimbursed, which forces them to pass those costs on to people with insurance. And while we're at it let's throw in really tall people because you never see any really old really tall people around; and drivers too, because automobile accidents kill more people than just about anything else, don't they? Although smoking has yet to be identified as a disability, it often does involve attendant health issues that are disabilities, and a court might accept a claim on the theory that a smoker was regarded as being disabled. Links found on the CompareClub website do not necessarily imply an endorsement or recommendation of the information or views that are expressed by the external party. Ms Ley also dismissed claims obese people and smokers could pay more for their private health insurance, but defended the government's right to ask "tough questions" about it given the private health insurance rebate cost it over $6 billion a year. Or are light-skinned and prone to sun burns? We all know that if we do the right things (exercise, eat properly, stop smoking, drink in moderation and take medications to prevent disease from getting worse) we will all spend less on healthcare. That doesn't make any sense. Education is a better tactic by health care companies. Carol Duh-Leong is a medical student who blogs atProgress Notes. It only takes a minute to see how much you could save. How about we raise rates on all stupid people who do not do what their doctor tells them ! This is not about poor genes. Primary Care, These people are choosing to eat more than they burn. As for being overweight, it doesn't cost anything to walk either in the mornings or evenings, and staying away from the dingdongs and cheezypoofs might help as well. Good thing it doesn't control health care costs for its customers, or it would lose most of its business. As for a flat tax, I mean fat tax, ask New Jersey Governor Chris Christie. While the Affordable Care Act ends the era of denying people with pre-existing conditions access to health care, it allows insurance companies to charge tobacco users up to 50% more for their monthly premiums. The key difference between life insurance for smokers and non-smokers is the likelihood of being accepted and the cost. But should smokers pay more for health insurance? Sign up to Stock Advisor for $79 for 1 year, All Jeans + Pants 25% off! Public Health & Policy. This is a stupid idea. You could soon be saving thousands of dollars with one of the 40+ lenders we compare. No. Grateful patient fundraising programs, as they are known, employ a strategy in which hospitals seek donations from satisfied patients, often using public data to identify those who are wealthy and requiring their physicians to discuss giving opportunities with them. Charging people rates based on their personal risks protects insurance companies against moral hazard, people taking risks without bearing the consequences. If rates go too high, then a subsidized public option should be available to those who cannot otherwise get insurance at a reasonable price. In sane countries with universal healthcare, they already do - the cigarettes are taxed, and a good deal of that tax goes into the national healthcare service to pay for the inevitable. If they can afford to buy more food and/or boxes of cigarettes then they can afford more money for healthcare. Then we get into a whole debate over which stupid behavior deserves discounted healthcare and which doesn't. But unfortunately it is not popular across the country if govt. Some employers are hesitant to impose a tobacco users surcharge for fear they could be sued, Weston says. Without a doubt they should be paying more. It would be ironicand tragicif charging smokers higher health insurance rates prevented them from accessing services that could help them stop smoking. But such surcharges are misguided. 2 out of 3 Australians thinks so. The reason for the move has come because companies are saying smokers cost them more money in medical costs and so the extra cost is just being passed down. (if applicable) for The Wall Street Journal. Should Texas be allowed to secede from the union? You'll be able to breathe better. What to do next? SMoking, excessive drinking, over eating should be the responsiblity of the person who practices these activiites. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Yes! They will save a fortune if they quit buying cigarettes. HORRIBLE! Loss prevention, however, reserves care for those who need it. And people who drive more than others, people who work 3 jobs, people who don't work enough, people who drink too much, those that don't drink enough. Because the ACA offers such generous coverage for smoking cessation aids, those charged with its implementation should take extra care to encourage smokers to participate in exchanges and to access the clinical services they need to quit smoking. The Affordable Care Act and federal rules dont spell out what companies can do if you lie on a health insurance application about smoking or if you start or resume using tobacco during the year after premiums are set. Insurance comp. Hi Jack. Yes, they should pay more. A growing number of employers are starting to apply surcharges for smokers, says Lisa Weston, director of wellness promotion for Bagnall, a member of United Benefits Advisors, in Phoenix. This is disgracefull question to ask abt fat people, sme hve reason to be tht way. Jack, the answer is simple. E) Probably not. Ever since Alabama started taxing fat people and smokers, obesity and smoking rates have gone down in the state. Since smokers tend to have significantly lower incomes than non-smokers, they could be especially vulnerable to increased health insurance costs. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Next, we will all be screened genetically, and anyone who has a predisposition for any illness or disease will be excluded acquiring insurance. Also, smokers miss 6.16 days of work per year compared to non-smokers' 3.86 days, and four ten-minute smoke breaks equate to . The folks behind Obamacare thought theyd figured out how to respect everyones rights, by giving health insurance companies the ability to charge higher premiumsa surchargefor smokers, up to 50% higher in some parts of the country. I don't have cancer. The idea is to spread the risk through out your paying customers in the event that something happens an individual is not overwhelmed with costs. Why should we pay for other people's liabilities? You may not care about charging the fat guy or the smoker more, but wait until they decide to charge YOU more because you're not a perfectly healthy young employee and so will cost more for health care. People that get speeding tickets and get into automobile accidents pay more for their car insurance. Then if you don't smoke and are not over weight, plus you don't use health insurance for years, is there a discount? Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Though its name has origins on the playground, bullying is a very real (and risky) concern in the workplace. How Long Should Myeloma Patients Continue Lenalidomide After AutoSCT. instead of providing serious programs to educate, The idea that poor people will be hurt by this is ridiculous. No one, not even the near dead, should pay MORE to these vultures. How about people with traffic tickets or accidents? If we are going to hold people financially responsible for their unhealthy choices, lets not pretend that obesity is somehow holier than emphysema. Don't destroy me, it was just an interesting thought I had when thinking about government health care. Fat people, who are smokers, should pay double. Instead, we should discourage them from smoking. Advise upper management of the potential pitfalls, as well as the benefits of adopting differentials, including the costs of a wellness program. Smokers elect to smoke and know that they are harming themselves. None of us should have to pay anything for health care. We do the same for car insurance and why not for health insurance. The penalty for smoking will depend on where you live or work. A study of 20,000 employees showed smokers had more hospital visits per 1,000 (124 vs. 76), had a longer average length of stay (6.5 vs. 5 days) and made six more visits to medical facilities per year than non-smokers. Kytlehas extensive experience in client counseling, including matters involving employment practices, employee discipline, and wage and hour matters. Every day, I wish more and more that Canada wasn't so damn cold. Shouldn't my health insurance give me discounts for going to the gym and not smoking? By the number of cigarettes a person smokes in a day? I have no idea how the specifics would play out. Instead, outlaw tobacco and educate everyone on better diets. The table below shows the price comparison of a smoker vs a non-smoker in good health. The employer cant just hope the employee finds out about the wellness program either, Weston says. Open a newChase Private ClientChecking account and get a $2000 bonus! Jack.you've just described 50% of America !!! Fiscal cliff = Thelma & Louise? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. 88% of smokers began smoking before age 18. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. FTC Plan to Ban Noncompete Clauses Shifts Companies Focus, Greta Thunberg Detained by Police in Germany During Mine Protest, Bonds Over Stocks: The New 60-40 Portfolio, Deal Slump Dents Profits at Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Rebellion Against Higher Prices Helps Slow Inflation, Opinion: The Hard Reality of a Debt-Ceiling Showdown, Opinion: Ph.D. Students of the World, Unite, Opinion: Wisconsin Bids for a Flat Income Tax, Opinion: How the Gas Stove in Your Kitchen Became a Symbol of Freedom. Though smoking is often seen as an adult issue, we should continue to support the many excellent anti-smoking campaigns and participate in research that helps us understand how to encourage adolescents that have started smoking to kick some butt. Smoking is the No. If I take up smoking or get fat, I'm applying for a government job. Which Studies Will be Practice Changing in Metastatic Breast Cancer? Their premums should be less and those in the high, $250,000 and up shouldpay a higher amount according to their income. 'Pacing' for Long COVID; China Reports 60K COVID Deaths; Abortion Jury in Virginia? The increased cost of cigarettes is the strongest influence in getting people to smoke. And, oh well, that's on you for not following the medical instructions.So, I guess yes it should. It concerns a team of office workers at a morally questionable company that performs brain surgery on employees to sever the consciousness of their work and personal lives. Poor people can afford this expensive health hazard luxury? My son had a hemoglobin test before an emergency surgery, and now our insurance considers him diabetic, which he is not, and we have not been able to get them to change this. This is a green light for insurance companies to continue making their own rules. If there ever was an industry that demanded nationalization it is the health care industry. The ACA recognizes the increased costs associated with smoking employees by allowing insurers to raise smokers premiums up to 50 percent over those paid by non-smokers. Use more, pay more. Shame on you Jack, shame on you ! when they need their Health Insurance". Which company could go out of business tomorrow and it People with a porn addiction, how did you realize you had (Serious) What causes death more than people realize? There are too many things that can cause one's life to be shortened. There are also companies hoping to save money on health care by incentivizing their employees to quit Employers pay nearly $6,000 more per year in absenteeism, lost productivity, smoke breaks and Fisher & Phillips suggests that employers who charge smokers more for health-insurance premiums do They should also figure out how much authority they have to police their employees. More importantly, for the purposes of this post, when surcharges arose in 2014, there was a pretty steep decline in the percent of smokers who purchased insurance. Working-age Americans are not legally required to purchase health insurance. If more companies took this approach rather than charging higher health premiums, smokers could get help and still be able to keep their health insurance coverage. I believe in following the Doctors instructions to the letter. Calling people Fat is akin to bullying which your network so fond of covering. How were we duped and what can we do about the opioid overdose crisis? We should tax people for smoking, not for receiving health insurance. The basic concept of insurance is to spread risk. This is a fantastic idea and I wholeheartedly agree with it, but then again, I'm a healthy non smoker. Of course people who practice unhealthy activities should pay more for health insurance, just like people who drive dangerously or speed pay higher premiums on their vehicle insurance. They absolutely should pay more. Kytles practice also involves drafting affirmative action plans and he has represented employers in hundreds of affirmative action audits conducted by the OFCCP. For one, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) prevents employees in group health plans from being charged more because of a health factor, which includes health status, medical condition and claims experience, among other things. Those of us who are short people should be ready. The cost of health cover has been steadily rising over the last several years, and Australians are getting frustrated. With nearly 16 percent of Americans now uninsured, the rate has been rising for years as prices for prescription drugs and hospital care have escalated. does this. Sign upfor free. All Rights Reserved. It never ends. There are two main ethical arguments for charging smokers higher insurance rates. Obviously, but the mere mention of it in this country means you must be a communist, because you're taking money from one group and giving it to another. Its all about personal responsibility..If you are unwilling to maintain a healthy lifestyle then you should be paying more than those of us who work at it..I am tired of paying high premiums to support those who don't care about their health -time to pay the piper ! I've given enough money for their addictively engineered products. They do not live as long and even getting treatment for those conditions is no fun. And I think it was hard for someone like Jackie Chan to find health insurance for his stunt work. Employers have to clearly disclose the program and all its components. How much is that costing us ? The stubborn presence of tobacco use is frustrating considering the plethora of studies that link it to so many debilitating diseases. Jack, People who use more healthcare resources because of a poor lifestyle choice such as smoking or poor diet should pay more. The idea is simple: smokers have the right to smoke, but not the right to pass on the increased cost of their healthcare to others. Smoking has nothing to do with genetics and people only can't stop smoking because they were foolish enough to start in the first place. People that are overweight also are electing to be overweight. But not enough employees have signed up or improved their health. There are numerous providers for such programs, often insurers, and seeking legal counsel also would be fruitful. Jack as I walk through the mall, all i see are overweight people, when i leave the mall, i see at least a dozen or so people puffing a cigarette in the parking lot. This commentary sets the article by Dubois on the ethical justification for charging higher insurance premiums for people with unhealthy lifestyles in the context of US health care . Ive had the privilege of knowing more than a few extraordinarily brilliant people from whose mouths seemed to spill spontaneous gems of polished prose. So smokers seem to be an excellent target to help employers manage costs. I guess I am just thinking of people who are certainly hurting themselves and will one day end up needing care for their risky behavior if they don't die from something else first. Pharmaceutical companies charge a fortune for the same drugs they export to countries that charge less for them. The reason? We have no control over these companies, their offers, website content, products/services, or the availability and nature of their products/services. Yes, I think they should be part of any risk pool their state has. The illnesses caused by smoking are unspeakably cruel and medical costs are out of sight. Then He Blurted out without being called upon. is this what we want to teach our kids? How about diabetics, cancer surviors, the list is endless. Instead, if they can afford insurance but choose not to purchase it, they pay a penalty. After all, like the commercial states, who doesn't want 50% more cash! (post continues after gallery.). Want a weekly round-up in your inbox? These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. The statements, opinions, or conclusions expressed here do not necessarily represent the statements, opinions or conclusions of the National Institute for Environmental Health Science, the National Institutes of Health, or the United States government. Sadly in America we have far more unhealthy people than healthy so this will probably be resisted and some groups will get involved and say it's discrimination. Risk does not mean something will happen but there is a chance something may. Many Americans companies have begun making smokers pay more for health insurance. Sounds like the Republican/Tea Party Health Care Reform Plan to mer. If someone makes bad choices I shouldn't be penalized for it. As we will see, too, the harmful effect of these behaviors are not just medically related. We should not discourage smokers from getting insurance. And let's be clear here, it is overwhelmingly statistically supported that smokers and the overweight suffer health issues and require more money. The ideal loan customer at a bank is someone who doesn't actually need the money. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. This is called tough love; the firms are offering free services to help them improve their lifestyles. However, she says, as long as the program is correctly implemented and complies with federal and state laws, employers should have no concerns. For example, if the cost of insurance is more than 9.66% of your income, the ACA lets you forgo insurance coverage without incurring a penalty. Smokers can abstain from smoking if they wish to. Though smoking is often seen as an adult issue, we should continue to support the many excellent anti-smoking campaigns and participate in research that helps us understand how to encourage adolescents that have started smoking to kick some butt. I am a smoker for 14 years now and my answer to the question is; YES! It needs to be a flat rate for everyone. If those at a higher risk paid more for health cover, it would theoretically reduce the cost for other people. Hell, those poor little insurance companies shouldn't have to pay for anything. STAY CONNECTED WITH THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN HEALTH, TECHNOLOGY, AND ENVIRONMENTAL ETHICS, Wall-Mart charges smokers more than any other company. Starting next year, Wal-Mart will charge employees who smoke higher premiums, along with offering a free program to help them quit. Should smokers pay more for health insurance? Let me get this straight, "the not poor" buy "the poor" food, while "the poor" buy cigarettes. I also think tobacco should be taxed out of existence. Include almost 40 % of large and medium-sized companies is always a reason but there always! Can share now that you dont what quietly went away without anyone noticing a tobacco users for. Cause one 's life to be an excellent target to help them improve their health either! 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N'T think there should be a size two they would n't pay more secret. Of America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!